snapper: what about privacy?
I have this conflict when it comes to Snapper, a kind of internal argument between a technology geek and a privacy geek. It goes a bit like this:
- Technology geek: It’s so cool. I want one. I just wave it past the reader! It comes in different form factors. And I can get a reader for it that will plug into my PC. It’s the Future™!
- Privacy geek: I’ll have to read the privacy policy. When I wave it past the reader in the buses and shops they’ll be collecting all sorts of data. What do they do with it? How long do they keep it for? And to whom do they give it to?
- Technology geek: But look at that great red colour. And that metallic-finish ink on the fish logo is amazing. How do they do that?
- Privacy geek: Jeez, down boy! Cripes, have you read this thing? Data smog like an Olympic summer in Beijing. My data is kept indefinitely, either in New Zealand or overseas, it says – but why overseas? Is some in Korea? And what about paragraph 12d, where my data can be given away for reasons of public safety? Does this mean the police can trawl Snapper’s database whenever they like on a anti-terrorism or perhaps even flimsier pretext?
- Technology geek: Look, who really cares about that stuff? Snapper is so convenient! Hey, I wonder what chip is inside here. That guy on the Wellingtonista said it’s a JavaCard, so it could still be a MiFare, but maybe the as-yet unbroken MiFare ProX. Or something else. Maybe the Koreans fabbed their own. But… if it really is a JavaCard just think of all the other cool applications that could be put on it! Should I be learning JC, I wonder?
- Privacy geek: FFS. You’ve never managed to learn any computer language before. And that’s a less useful one than most others you’ve dabbled with. But really, aren’t you just the teensy bit disturbed by how Snapper, as an electronic substitute for cash, allows for the tracking and accounting of lots of transactions that previously weren’t recorded? I think I’ll buy my Snapper with cash, and not register it. That way the transactions won’t be logged to me personally, and it will remain equivalent privacy-wise, to good old cash.
- Technology geek: Yeah, but if you do that you won’t be able go online to monitor your balance, or see your transactions, or even check out what bus stops you used. Self-inflicted FAIL! Hmmm, I wonder how Snapper really works. Maybe I should get my own RFID reader and see if I can make the card do talkies with my PC. And, it would be quite good to see what other RFID tags are lurking around the house.
- Privacy geek: Now you’re on to something. Microwave the little fuckers when you find them. And then we can test my new RFID blocking wallet. You never know who could be sniping passers-by with a high-powered RFID reader.
- Technology geek: You are a bit paranoid, aren’t you. But I’ll play along if it means I can get my RFID reader. Or maybe I can build my own! On the other hand, maybe I can melt this card in acetone and tape what remains to the inside of my phone. And then I will be the most 133+ Snapping g33k in Wellington!
- Privacy geek: Fucking hell. There’s no hope. Maybe Scott McNealy is right.
And so on it goes.
Whatever your opinion on this sort of thing, it’s still worth reading the boring bits, the Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policies, just to make sure you are comfortable with the trade-off between desire and convenience versus privacy. And perhaps you can find a usage strategy that allows for a certain amount of both.
Mike Riversdale
24 July 2008, 08:33 #
(a repeat of my Wellingtonista comment but I think it deserves to be here as well – hope you don’t mind)
So that’s the thing … IF I want to use it like cash then go to the — hang on, I’ve got cash in my pocket, why don’t I just use CASH? But they, the ANZ and Wgtn bus company are going to penalise me for that. So what do I gain from this “cool-ness” … a more expensive bus ride home.
And if you are an ANZ member and use your credit card (with any fancy email address) then they can work out who you are.
And if you use the same IP address (broadband anyone) then they can work out it is “probably” one person and do data magic on it – Google is in the European pooh because of exactly this.
So … it’s not really, if at all, “like cash” – we pay for their card, their data tracking, and their dropping of costs by giving them money (the cards aren’t free are they?) and more importantly our data – think FlyBuys but no-ones really telling you you’re being tracked.
Hmmm, I’m not so sure about this card really … and it’s because they’re not telling us the whole story.
Stephen
24 July 2008, 09:07 #
I wrote to them with some questions about their privacy policy at the advertised address over two weeks ago and haven’t heard back. Disappointing (or they have a very aggressive spam filter).
Alan
24 July 2008, 10:01 #
Mike: I don’t mind at all. I just find it ironic because for once, you seem more paranoid about the privacy aspects of a service than I am!
I wouldn’t overdo the links between Snapper and ANZNational – all the bank is doing, as far as I can tell, is providing a convenient network for payments. The card and all its associated technology really is a project of Infratil, who own the Wellington and Auckland bus companies.
And as outlined above, there is a way to get the benefits of the cheaper bus fares, plus the ticketing convenience, without necessarily revealing too much of yourself.
Stephen: I think they’re ignoring you (if I was being charitable, I’d wonder if it’s because they don’t have any operating policies on some of the things you were asking). We know they are replying to some of the emails that get sent their way. Why don’t you give them a call?
Mike Riversdale
24 July 2008, 10:19 #
I think, on reflection, that for me this isn’t about privacy but about honesty and choice.
ANZ – merely pointed out who owned who and the obvious data connectivity possibility.
<em>revealing too much</em> – the choice to not reveal anything is therefore gone, well, going at least.
Brian
24 July 2008, 10:37 #
It’s just one more nail in the coffin of privacy. There are a number of organisations that have been collecting a lot of information about what we do for a long time now. Hands up all those of us who have a credit card, and use it for the majority of our spending – as the credit card companies give us a months free use of money… In exchange for a comprehensive list of the products that we’ve purchased, where we live, and the shops that we’ve visited (with timestamps accurate to the nearest minute).
Some of us have loyalty cards as well, which we use in exchange for rewards once we’ve spent enough, or in the case of the Woolworths/Foodtown/Countdown onecard – certain specials are only available to Onecard holders. Online shopping anyone? Same story!
Telecom and Vodafone have a pretty good idea what area most of us are in most of the time, based on triangulation & signal strength coming from the portable tracking devices that many of use routinely carry. (They’re called “cellphones”)
So one more organisation is going to know a little more about us… It seems to me that our choices are now limited to: – sell everything, go bush and live off the land – trust various organisations not to be evil, trust in our government to ensure that they aren’t, and accept the consequences of our use of these pieces of technology that make our lives easier.
Sarah
24 July 2008, 13:10 #
Lower Hutt isn’t cool enough for Snapper cards, but I’ve stubbornly resisted getting a supermarket onecard (even though the savings would sometimes be a big help to my limited budget) because the idea of someone storing information on all my purchases just bugs the hell out of me.
I don’t imagine my tea bags, soy milk, toilet paper and cat food purchases will ever be particularly incriminating but it’s my information and the price I put on it is higher than the discounts available.
And who knows, one day in future when my pinko pacifist self buys fertiliser and batteries in the same transaction I may get a little “terror raid” of my own. Good thing my trained attack cat has a thing for masked men in black.
JoMangee - UP
24 July 2008, 13:27 #
Last I heard, the Snapper folks (ANZ and Tech side) are facing UP at Unlimited Potential Gadgets, Games and Geeks event on 13th August in L2, Wellington Town Hall – if you’d like them to answer some specific questions in their presentation – then please email me them at jo-ggg-snapper@UP.org.nz ;)
Mike Riversdale
24 July 2008, 13:29 #
Hmm, my comment reply wasn’t posted … ?
Alan
24 July 2008, 13:54 #
Brian; Sarah: I don’t have a OneCard or FlyBuys either… but then Rebecca does, which probably does amount to having them. This kind of surveillance is universal these days; the saving grace, as someone said to me today, is that generally most corporates are too incompetent to really start joining the dots between their mega databases.
Also Sarah, should we be reviving the Pinko Pacifist party for this election?
Mike: try refreshing, or reposting.
JoMangee: ta!